Whip balance

[badassbilly]

About The Pull Request

Lowers whip damage, gets rid of its armor penetration.

Why It's Good For The Game

It does 4 less damage than an unwielded bastard sword, with no cooldown, 3 range, and 40% armor penetration. It shouldn't.

dude...

[Hemlock32]

From slightly overtuned in specific, niche circumstances, to worthless?

[badassbilly]

It's a whip

[wshuwshuwshi]

Whip IS cracked (badum tsss) but giving NEGATIVE pen factor is bonkers
Especially when you’ve already dropped the force by 11

[FreeStylaLT]

If you're going to be proposing a nerf to all whips that makes a regular shirt able to tank them completely, you'll have to address:

• Inquisitor's special whip and subclass based around it
• Dungeoneer and them being based around it as the main and only weapon they have real access to
• Desert Rider and their subclass that is based around a whip as a weapon
• Steppesmen mercenary relying on it as the melee option by default
• Wretch outlaw relying on it as a weapon option
• Ensure that the "Punish" intent can actually deal any damage at all so it would, uh, work for that purpose. No, expecting the punished to be bare naked stripped every time for lashings isn't a particularly fun solution here.

Or I'd caution against neutering a weapon that quite a few classes use as a defining / optional trait, and take a more measured approach, or better yet, leave them be for now.

[feliniddotexe]

whips are pretty strong but these changes feels like a pretty harsh overadjustment, i don't think there's a single weapon in the game with negative armor pen

i'm pretty sure this nerf would make the whip genuinely weaker than just using your bare fists lol

[FreeStylaLT]

correct, the blacksmith apron would fully absorb whip attacks with these changes

[burgerenergy]

Whips are probably the most powerful, certainly most reliable weapon in the game with their combo of reach and appreciable armor pen.

No one uses them. They aren't as flash, and they aren't gonna one shot anything. They also can be embedded, and are relatively rare skill wise. They're fine. When you see people going out of their way to pick them up contrary to their class skills, like with steel maces in the before times, we can talk about apparently deleting it.

[radarseas]

just make it unable to delimb, lower its AP to 30% with the inquis/dungeoneer whips keeping the pre-nerf 40% and make it so they're bigger in your inventory unless its the inquisitor/dungeoneer/rider whips.

its main issue is just delimbing through armor, if it couldn't, ehh. its an alright weapon then, because you already lose defense, need a shield, there's a brief windup to hit, its a rare skill so usually you can be parried and to boot people will usually aim to straight kill you in a fight because its a fearsome weapon.

even then, wretch does need a decent weapon as compensation since they rely on it at the loss of some other skills that actually can parry.

[Lutowski]

negative pen??