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[Parameter Testing] KPP vs ePBL vertical mixing #243
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Velocity truncations, likely caused by initial conditions, happen only on the second day of a 5 model year run. The affected locations can be visualised in this notebook. Update on 9 Dec 2024: |
Minghang pointed out that the truncation errors are occurring only with the ePBL mixing for the 0.25° configuration using the new grids and topography. These errors are happening consecutively for 5 years. ![]() ![]() Anton mentioned that the ice shelf may have retreated compared to the previous GEBCO data, which might explain the presence of a new channel. @aekiss Would a topography edit be required in this case, given that the issue arises only with the ePBL mixing? |
Truncations are still present when dt and dt_cpl are reduced to 900s while keeping dt_therm=10800s. A comparison between the OM3 and OM2 topos is provided below: As noted by @aekiss, the two topos are quite similar to each other. |
Using a 900s timestep results in a ~27% reduction in runtime performance compared to the one using 1080s. Given this big decrease, it seems unlikely that we will further reduce the timestep. The current ePBL parameters are configured according to the OM5 setup, excluding the Langmuir parameterisation. |
To troubleshoot if this truncation occurred due to the frequency of ice-ocean coupling, dt was still 900s, but dt_cpl was set to 1080s and no truncation was observed. |
This issue has been mentioned on ACCESS Hive Community Forum. There might be relevant details there: https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/cosima-twg-meeting-minutes-2024/1734/22 |
This comment is related to salinity restoring (related #167).Option1: Black solid lines - KPP (Control)
Option5: Gray dashed lines - OM2-0.25deg ryf Comments:
Plots are available https://github.com/ACCESS-NRI/access-eval-recipes/blob/main/ocean/Salinity_restoring.ipynb |
The salinity value at the crash location is high, |
Following this comment, #167 (comment)
The updated topography is noted, but are we still using the default value for |
Yes, we haven't changed |
It looks like we forgot to set the RIVERMIX_DEPTH in the above test:
@aekiss noted OM2 uses river_insertion_thickness=40m, OFAM3 used 15m. I'm not sure how either value was chosen. And we think trying 40m for a first test could be appropriate. |
FYI Reichl et al 2024 provide some improvements to ePBL, which will be adopted in GFDL's OM5 . They find this corrects "a significant bias in the diurnal cycle of mixing in OM4" but has "little impact on the time-mean biases". |
At today's COSIMA meeting there seemed to be a strong view we should to move to ePBL (or at least the latest improvements to KPP) if we can, e.g.:
@rmholmes, @PaulSpence, @dhruvbhagtani, @adele-morrison please weigh in with your thoughts/suggestions. |
Having gone through Reichl et al. 2024 now, I think the improvements are great, and in line with Sane et al. 2023 already out that use neural networks to improve vertical diffusivity in ePBL. Some things to note about Sane et al. 2023 that might be relevant to this discussion:
From what I understand, it'll be nice to use the improvement by Reichl et al 2024 as Ryan also suggested, and when the equation discovery preprint comes out, we can check whether it's physically motivated or not, applicable only to realistic simulations or perturbation simulations or not, etc.. |
Hi, I also would vote for ePBL. Like switching out a component from MOM6 that seems to have been tested with and adding a more archaic version seems a bit backwards? I don't wanna impede the OM3 development tho -- feel free to ignore me! But KPP has been shown to not do the best job and I was always feeling happier and excited with the ePBL addition of OM3. I wouldn't advocate towards the equation-discovery and neural net avenues that @dhruvbhagtani mentions though. Those seem more experimental. I'm puzzled (and I admit I may have not read all the details here). But since GFDL has included it as their default OM4p25 configuration (and elsewhere?) then is the problems we are facing related to something else? I know Brandon Reichl very well and I can connect you with them. I could tag them here if you like -- just didn't wanna enforce this. |
Hi, I have not followed any of the work above identifying the numerical stability issues and so I cannot comment on that directly. However, I would echo @navidcy and @dhruvbhagtani with the comments on sticking with ePBL if possible, given the age of KPP and where GFDL is going. I would also add:
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Last I heard, CESM3 will use KPP for CMIP7 #83 (comment) |
Parameter Tests Description
The test is as follows,
Expts_manager Version
dd38b80
YAML input file
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